Uh huh...

Fatah and Hamas are at each other’s throats. The rival Palestinian parties have taken up arms in the Gaza Strip and initiated a full scale civil war. This is the flashover from the Lebanese conflict of less than a year ago. Hamas, an Islamic, militant group, infuriated with the position taken by the PLO and Fatah towards Israel, is seeking the complete rout of the government of Mahmoud Abbas.

Holy crap. Somewhere someone will bemoan the fact that we haven’t engaged with these groups or dialogued with their leadership. The Islamists have proven time and time again their unwillingness to enter diplomatic discussions, their disregard for non-Muslims and their utter lack of concern for their own people. The people who are being shot and killed are not IDF soldiers but helpless Palestinians!

Let’s review.

1) All recent terrorist attacks have come largely (<90%) from Islamic militants.
2) All present instability in the world is due to Islamic extremists
3) Islamic extremists have publicly voiced their desire to eliminate Western thought and establish Sharia as global law.


1) Are we at war?
2) Does a negotiated settlement seem likely?
3) If so, who (precisely) do we negotiate with?
4) What are our options?
5) Are any short term?

In my opinion, short of deploying troops across the globe to clamp down on these actions, there is no short term fix. The Islamic problem is rooted in the restrictive and oppressive nature of its own philosophy. It has not undergone any reformation – akin to Judaism or Christianity – and it did not start out as a benign philosophy – as Buddhist or Hinduism.

It seeks conflict with those who differ in belief.

It seeks subjugation over the females of its faith.

In order for the world to resolve this crisis, the change must come from within Islam and from without. The change from without would be for the West to demand adherence to some basic principles of human dignity. It would require us to aggressively confront separatism in all its forms – thought, gender, race, etc.
It would require us to acknowledge that while someone may have a faith based upon certain values – that faith does not trump the rights if individuals to freedom of thought, belief and life.


sonicfrog said…
Quick. Go to Sully's site and find the "That Welsh Dude" YouTube post. Within a world of turmoil and violence, it is one of the most uplifting things I've seen in a long, long time.

Bring kleenex to wipe the tears.
sonicfrog said…
PS. Will comment on the Palestine thing soon.
Major John said…
So much for Fatah... guess we don;t need to "dialog" with them anymore. Gah.
Citizen Deux said…
Frog, sorry - the guy is talented, but I never felt any connection to opera.

This reminds me a little of Charlotte Church - another Welsh singer with "no formal training".

Is it the landscape? Wales is truly one of the most beautiful parts of the world I have visited.
Citizen Deux said…

There were several articles early on when Fatah had clearly abandoned their moral high ground in favor of cronyism and corruption on a sanctioned scale. With the rise of Hamas, their fate is sealed.
BostonMaggie said…
OK, I'm lost.
"It would require us to acknowledge that while someone may have a faith based upon certain values – that faith does not trump the rights if individuals to freedom of thought, belief and life."

It would require "us"? I thought we already pretty much had this one nailed down. Doesn't it require "them" to do these things?
Anyway, don't hold your breath. I don't want to send troops. I want to stand here and wait til the dust clears. While Fatah and Hamas kill each other (by and large) they are not killing Americans or Israelis. I'm good.
Maybe when they finish, what's left will be so weak we can pressure them to think a little.

I watched the video when CDR Salamander put it up. The guy is very good, but I prefer to listen to Puccini rather than watch it.

Opera doesn't connect? What do your plebeian tastes run toward? LOL
sonicfrog said…
Oh, Come On! I HATE Opera!!! OK. That just cost me some gay points. But Come On!!! The guy's a freaking cell phone counter guy! When was the last time you guys were in a cell phone store! This is UP-LIFTING!!! Rise Up With Me Dammit!!!!
But its Wales! and its Opera! Mags, Deux has many tastes, and I can assure you that none of them are plebian. He just prefers ELO to Pavoratti.....

I can't believe I am agreeing with Mags on waiting til the dust settles. Oh, my liberal humanity!
sonicfrog said…
Hey I LOVE ELO! They even did a song about opera on the "New World Recorld album.
sonicfrog said…
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sonicfrog said…
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sonicfrog said…
I feel great sadness for the innocent Palestinians caught in the crossfire of this inevitable civil war. But, that being said, THIS is poetic justice.
Citizen Deux said…
Some great theory on Gaza from a variety fo sources. One even poses that Abbas wanted Hamas to take Gaza and then Fatah would run the West Bank.
Citizen Deux said…
Maggie asked a question in her comment, which I failed to answer. And she is very tenacious about getting her answers.

The "us" I was referring to was the world at large. I do pose that in the USA we do a lot better job of accepting different faiths and preserving the rights of the individual.

We had the benfit of several centuries of European wars and thought to build upon. I don't know what would prod Islam or some of these nations into a similar path, without a LOT of bloodshed.

Do you remember Yugoslavia? A nation held together in egalitarian harmony by Tito and then following leaders under communist rule. Once those stops were removed - boom - centuries of intolerance, ignorance and hatred resulted in a pretty horrific level of violence - for no real reason. (See Ireland, Somalia, Cambodia, etc.)
um. who deleted all their comments? was someone drinking too much? or just being a bad speller?
BostonMaggie said…
"Maggie asked a question in her comment, which I failed to answer. And she is very tenacious about getting her answers."

You make me sound like a terrier!
It's not my fault that sometimes you drift in the ether.

Sonic - What are "gay points"? Where do you get them? What can you trade them in for?

Capt.Jack - Come to the dark side. The force is very strong here. LOL

For the record I like ELO too. I am a child of the 60s/70s. But Puccini is timeless.

As for the "more" we should be doing in Gaza, aren't you arguing against yourself with that comment? Yugoslavia was brutally repressed and then exploded. What can "we" the international community do that wouldn't be repressive? The only thing that would stop that violence right now, really stop it, would be an overwhelming military force, curfews, martial law, etc. You couldn't keep it up forever, it's just a lid on a boiling pot. Plus all the humanists would be screaming about the brutality.

All we can do is what Israel is doing (without thanks or recognition from most of the rest of the world). That's taking the wounded to Israeli hospitals and taking the refugees who are fleeing the fighting. I love the irony of the poor, poor oppressed Palestinians running to the only safety - right into the arms of the evil Israelis.
Citizen Deux said…
What we might want to do is not what we are willing to do. We are not going to impose a Pax Americana by virtue of landing troops in every uncooperative nation.
BostonMaggie said…
Right, that's my point. We can't do that everywhere and that is the only thing that would stop the violence. So? What is it we should be doing? Bush turning the financial taps back on really steamed me!
Citizen Deux said…
Three top things we should be doing.

1) Challenge the fundamental problems with Islam (philosphically)

2) Aggressively articulate and promote our objective and philosophy (freedom, equal rites, free market economy, etc.)

3) RUTHLESSLY deal with violent opposition - militarily.

Problem is, this looks too much like an "evil empire" strategy, and to some extent it is. The problem we face is what happens when you are the good guys?
BostonMaggie said…
1) Who are you talking to? (LOL, typing it here can not convey the fits of hysterical gigling as I type this). A philosophical discussion with.....they guy with the gun in his hand and his foot on Yassar's potrait? The people throwing rocks at tanks? The people protesting the pastries?

2) See above.

3) I am all for ruthless! Oh wait, this is still politics? I thought we had moved on to sex.
Citizen Deux said…
Okay - this post is officially dead - I will need to put something new up.
sonicfrog said…
Answer to Capt. Jack:




(Yes to later was aided by Yes to former).